Growing Consultancies Ep 32: Not a Surveyor but built a consultancy | Annie Buckley of Fourth Wall Building Consultancy
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In this episode of Pegasus Radio, host interviews Annie Buckley, co-founder and non-technical director of Fourth Wall Building Consultancy, a small but agile building surveying firm based in the UK. Annie shares her unconventional journey from a PR and corporate affairs background to becoming a key architect of her business’s growth and systems. Despite not being a chartered building surveyor, she plays a pivotal role in business development, marketing, and operational efficiency—freeing her technical co-founders to focus on client delivery. The conversation delves into the challenges of being a young, female leader in a traditionally male-dominated industry, the importance of building thick skin, and the strategic value of having a non-technical co-founder. Annie also discusses the firm’s innovative use of custom CRM systems, AI-powered GPTs, and client portals to streamline operations and enhance client experience. The episode highlights how early investment in systems, process, and diverse thinking gives small consultancies a competitive edge. Annie emphasizes the importance of playing to strengths, setting boundaries, and learning from mistakes—lessons she’s applied while growing the business from a dining table in Manchester during the pandemic.
A non-technical founder can be a strategic asset by focusing on business development, marketing, and systems—freeing technical experts to deliver work.
Investing early in custom tech, automation, and AI (like custom GPTs) creates scalable efficiency and a superior client experience.
Young founders benefit from 'naive optimism'—they’re more willing to experiment and learn through trial and error.
Setting clear boundaries between work and personal life is critical when co-founding with a partner, especially when working remotely.
Diversity in background and perspective strengthens a consultancy—Annie’s PR and comms expertise complements the technical skills of her co-founders.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Annie Buckley: From PR to Building Consultancy Co-Founder
“I'm not a surveyor. But everyone needs stuff that isn't like their trade to have a business. There's more to business. There's so much.”
The Unconventional Start: A Business Born in a Pandemic
Annie recounts how she and her partner Josh launched Fourth Wall in November 2020, during the height of the pandemic. They started from a dining table in Burnage, Manchester, with no clients due to a non-solicit agreement. Annie leveraged her PR and comms skills to build systems, branding, and early marketing, while Josh focused on technical delivery.
Breaking the Fourth Wall: Branding with Meaning
“It's linked to that. And the way we always wanted to build a business to how we relate to people and how kind of we are.”
The Power of Non-Technical Leadership in Consultancies
“You don't want to burn out and you want to enjoy life as well as work. However that is for people.”
Overcoming Prejudice and Building Resilience
“I think that's one of my main things that I've had to learn is to not take things personally and to grow a thicker skin.”
“I'm not a surveyor. But everyone needs stuff that isn't like their trade to have a business. There's more to business. There's so much.”
“You can't just pop something in and go write me something engaging, shorten this. You have to make it work for you.”
“I think that's one of my main things that I've had to learn is to not take things personally and to grow a thicker skin.”
Host
Guest
Annie Buckley
person
Fourth Wall Building Consultancy
organization
Josh Buckley
person
Manchester Airports Group
organization
Sheffield City Region
organization
ChatGPT
product
Dubsado
product
Ryan Serhan
person
Zapier
product
Selling to Serve
book
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