Talking peace, making war - with Jake Sullivan
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In this gripping episode of Unholy: Two Jews on the News, hosts Yannick Levy and Jonathan Friedland deliver a harrowing account of life in Israel during the 27th day of a devastating war with Iran, marked by relentless missile attacks, frequent sirens, and the psychological toll on civilians. The episode opens with a stark prelude: the sound of Israel’s preliminary alert siren, a sonic signature of daily life under siege. Levy, anchoring from Tel Aviv, shares visceral details of a 100kg cluster bomb landing near her home, the chaos of sheltering in public spaces, and the growing disconnect between official claims of victory—such as Trump’s assertion that 90% of Iran’s arsenal is destroyed—and the grim reality on the ground. The hosts explore the profound societal impact, including a striking poll showing that support for the war drops dramatically among Israelis without nearby shelters, revealing a deep inequality in wartime resilience. The conversation then pivots to the geopolitical drama, with a major focus on former U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, who offers a sobering analysis of President Trump’s war strategy. Sullivan argues that Trump’s initial confidence in rapid military success has been shattered by Iran’s resilience, and warns that the war lacks clear objectives, congressional authorization, and a viable endgame. He critiques the decision to go to war as poorly conceived, advocating instead for a nuclear deal and a long-term deterrence strategy over endless conflict. The episode also examines the global ripple effects: a surge in antisemitic attacks worldwide, allegedly linked to Iran’s retaliation, and the growing unease among European allies who fear being dragged into a war they didn’t choose. Ultimately, the episode paints a picture of a war that has gone off-script, with profound human, strategic, and moral costs, and questions whether diplomacy—or a dangerous escalation—will prevail.
The war in Israel has created a profound disconnect between official narratives of victory and the daily reality of civilian suffering, with sirens and missile attacks continuing despite claims of 90% destruction of Iran’s arsenal.
Support for the war in Israel is heavily correlated with access to personal shelters, revealing a stark inequality in wartime resilience and raising questions about the fairness of national sacrifice.
Former NSC advisor Jake Sullivan argues that the U.S. war with Iran was poorly conceived, lacking clear objectives and congressional approval, and warns that escalating to ground operations risks deeper, indefinite conflict.
Sullivan advocates for a diplomatic solution—specifically a verifiable nuclear deal with Iran—over military escalation, emphasizing that deterrence and pressure on proxies are more sustainable than endless bombing.
The war has triggered a global spike in antisemitic attacks, with coordinated violence targeting synagogues and Jewish charities, suggesting Iran may be using proxy violence to retaliate and destabilize the West.
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The Sound of War: Sirens and Alerts in Israel
The episode opens with the sound of Israel’s preliminary alert siren, a recurring feature of life during the ongoing war. Hosts Yannick Levy and Jonathan Friedland use this sonic backdrop to introduce the daily reality of living under missile threat, setting a tone of urgency and unease.
Life in the Shelter: The Human Cost of War
“It kind of feels like a Russian roulette. I mean, obviously you take precaution and you go into a shelter in a safe room. This is no joke, right? You take it very, very seriously...”
The Myth of Victory: 90% Destroyed vs. Reality
“Either the Iranians brilliantly hid a whole lot of their arsenal, or that 90% figure was wishful thinking. Let's put it at its most generous, wishful thinking by the American and Israeli leaderships.”
The Shelter Divide: Inequality in War
“The support for the war, generally speaking, is still pretty high, over 70 percent. But you see the correlation between the people who have an easier, more accessible shelter. We call that a safe room or a mamad. That is higher in the support.”
Trump’s Peace Gambit: Diplomacy or Deception?
Trump’s sudden announcement of peace talks with Iran is dissected as a potential ruse. The hosts and guest Jake Sullivan explore whether this is a genuine diplomatic opening or a tactic to buy time, given Iran’s history of negotiating while preparing for further attacks.
“I do not believe it was a sound decision to start this war now. I do not. Number one, I have yet to hear at least an American official state plainly what the purpose and objective of the war is.”
“Either the Iranians brilliantly hid a whole lot of their arsenal, or that 90% figure was wishful thinking. Let's put it at its most generous, wishful thinking by the American and Israeli leaderships.”
“I think there were a lot of people in the Trump White House and around Prime Minister Netanyahu who essentially talked themselves into the idea that Iran was a total paper tiger.”
Hosts
Guest
Israel
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Iran
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United States
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Jake Sullivan
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Donald Trump
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Benjamin Netanyahu
person
Yannick Levy
person
China
place
Jonathan Friedland
person
Hezbollah
organization
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