790 Madness and Myth (with Natasha Joukovsky) | My Last Book with Kimberly Lau

The History of Literature58mApril 6, 2026

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AI-Generated Summary

In this episode of The History of Literature, host Jack Wilson explores the intersection of myth, madness, and modern life through a conversation with novelist Natasha Joukowsky about her new novel, *Medium Rare*. The discussion begins with a personal anecdote about Wilson’s decision not to run for a train during a rush hour at a station—highlighting the absurdity of modern urban anxiety and the paradox of civilized humans behaving like animals. This sets the stage for a deep dive into the novel’s central metaphor: the NCAA March Madness tournament as a modern-day Icarus myth. Joukowsky explains the astronomical odds of a perfect bracket—far more improbable than commonly believed—and uses the 2019 University of Virginia basketball team’s improbable run from humiliation to championship as a real-life counterpoint to the mythic fall and rise. The novel centers on Phil Fayton, an exceptionally average Washington, D.C. lobbyist whose obsession with filling out a perfect bracket leads to a surreal, mythic journey. Through the lens of Greek mythology—particularly Icarus and Cassandra—Joukowsky examines the illusion of exceptionalism, the fleeting nature of fame, and the quiet dignity of the ordinary. The episode also features a poignant conversation with fairy tale scholar Kimberly Lau, who shares her choice for her last book: Angela Carter’s *The Bloody Chamber*, a work that inspires awe, intellectual stimulation, and aesthetic delight. The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring power of myth, the joy of literary conspiracies, and the idea that art can be both timeless and deeply rooted in the present.

Key Takeaways
1

A perfect March Madness bracket is far more improbable than the commonly cited 1 in 9.2 quintillion—real odds are closer to 1 in 2 billion, still astronomically rare.

2

The novel *Medium Rare* uses the Icarus myth as a framework to explore the rise and fall of an 'exceptionally average' man in Washington, D.C., highlighting the absurdity of modern urban anxiety.

3

Fame in D.C. is often temporary and illusory—many powerful figures are known more for their fleeting influence than lasting legacy.

4

Myth is not static; it thrives when reimagined in contemporary contexts, as seen in Joukowsky’s use of Ovid’s *Metamorphoses* and Bruegel’s *The Fall of Icarus*.

5

The ideal reader of *Medium Rare* should approach it with 'conspiratorial leisureza'—a light, playful, collaborative mindset that embraces both humor and depth.

…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus

Chapters
0:00
10 min

The Train That No One Should Run For

The only ones who do this are the very people who consider themselves the highest form of living creature. The civilized human beings. Is this civilized to drop everything and run for a train?

Highlight
10:00
20 min

The Myth of the Perfect Bracket

Even if you knew a lot about college basketball, you don't know about the upsets. There could be injuries or could be all kinds of factors that would interfere with your ability to pick.

Highlight
30:00
20 min

Washington, D.C. as the Stage for the Average Man

Joukowsky explains why Washington, D.C. is the perfect setting for a modern Icarus story: it’s a city of 'unexceptional exceptional folks'—people who appear ordinary but wield temporary power. She contrasts D.C. with New York and Los Angeles, where fame is more overtly tied to industry or entertainment. The novel’s protagonist, Phil Fayton, embodies this paradox: an average man whose obsession with a billion-dollar prize becomes his tragic hubris.

50:00
20 min

Myth, Art, and the Power of Recursion

The work of the director is to love the cliche, adopt the cliche, and then work against it. You have to remake the cliche in a way nobody has ever made it before.

Highlight
1:10:00
25 min

The Last Book: A Celebration of Life

I think one of the things that I like about being alive is feeling really intellectually stimulated. And Carter's collection does that for me every time I read it.

Highlight
High-Impact Quotes
The work of the director is to love the cliche, adopt the cliche, and then work against it. You have to remake the cliche in a way nobody has ever made it before.
Sam Peckinpah (quoted by Jack Wilson)41:13
Viral: 92.0
The expensive delicate ship that must have seen something amazing. A boy falling out of the sky had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.
W.H. Auden (quoted in epigraph)24:34
Viral: 88.0
The only ones who do this are the very people who consider themselves the highest form of living creature. The civilized human beings. Is this civilized to drop everything and run for a train?
Jack Wilson6:03
Viral: 85.0
Speakers

Host

Jack Wilson

Guests

Natasha JoukowskyKimberly Lau
Topics Discussed
myth and literature95%modern urban anxiety90%the art of storytelling88%sports and culture85%fame and power80%literary allusions and references78%identity and belonging75%the role of the reader70%
People & Brands

Natasha Joukowsky

person

25xPositive

Medium Rare

book

18xPositive

NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

other

15xNeutral

Icarus

other

14xNeutral

Jack Wilson

person

12xNeutral

Cassandra

other

12xPositive

Ovid

person

10xPositive

Kimberly Lau

person

8xPositive

Bruegel

person

7xPositive

University of Virginia

organization

6xPositive

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