Ben Rhodes: Trump Is Getting a Terrible Deal

In this incisive episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes back Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor under Barack Obama, to dissect the unfolding diplomatic crisis surrounding Iran and the potential deal emerging from talks in Islamabad. Rhodes delivers a scathing critique of Donald Trump’s war in the Middle East, arguing that the conflict—launched with the expectation of quick regime change—has resulted in massive destruction, trillions in economic damage, and a catastrophic erosion of U.S. global credibility. He contrasts the current proposed deal with the Iran nuclear deal (JCPOA) of 2015, emphasizing that the JCPOA had robust international oversight, verifiable limits on Iran’s nuclear program, and a permanent prohibition on nuclear weapons development. In contrast, the current negotiations lack legitimacy, involve no multilateral guarantors, and risk empowering Iran with billions in unfrozen assets while failing to dismantle its military capabilities. Rhodes warns that the war has strengthened Iran’s deterrence, emboldened its regional proxies, and alienated allies from Europe to the Gulf. He also critiques the hypocrisy of right-wing hawks who once vilified him for the JCPOA but will likely defend Trump’s deal, and highlights the moral failure of U.S. foreign policy under Trump, which has undermined both democratic values and American leadership. The conversation extends to Cuba, where Rhodes laments the rollback of Obama-era normalization efforts and the resulting humanitarian crisis, and to the broader theme of American identity, where he rebukes J.D. Vance’s exclusionary vision of nationalism as fundamentally un-American. Ultimately, Rhodes calls for Democrats to embrace an anti-war posture, prioritize domestic renewal, and lead through moral example rather than military force.