School Choice, Competition vs. Spending

The ThoughtStretchers Podcast1h 17mApril 1, 2026

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AI-Generated Summary

In this episode of The ThoughtStretchers Podcast, host Drew Perkins engages in a nuanced dialogue with Patrick Graff, senior fellow at the American Federation for Children, about the impact of school choice on public education. Graff presents findings from a study analyzing Florida’s 15-year private school choice program, which revealed that public school students in high-competition areas outperformed their peers in low-competition areas by 120 days in reading and math gains. He argues this competition effect was 11 times more cost-effective than increasing school spending, citing a meta-analysis showing only five extra days of learning per $1,000 spent. The conversation explores the mechanisms behind this effect—such as improved student-teacher ratios, reduced disciplinary incidents, and better student-teacher fit—while acknowledging concerns about accountability, rural school impacts, and the broader role of schools as community anchors. Graff emphasizes the importance of minimum academic quality through nationally norm-referenced assessments and discusses the potential of the new federal Education Freedom Tax Credit to expand educational opportunity without politicizing funding. The episode concludes with a call for moving beyond polarization and fostering inclusive, evidence-based dialogue around education reform.

Key Takeaways
1

School choice competition in high-impact areas can yield 120-day learning gains in public schools—11 times more cost-effective than increasing school spending.

2

The Florida school choice program led to measurable improvements in public school outcomes, including reduced disciplinary incidents and smaller class sizes.

3

Minimum academic quality can be ensured through nationally norm-referenced assessments and transparent reporting, not just state testing mandates.

4

The new federal Education Freedom Tax Credit allows families to use charitable donations for education expenses across school sectors, bypassing traditional political gridlock.

5

School choice should be evaluated not just on test scores but on its role in fostering community, civil society, and educational pluralism.

Chapters
0:00
2 min

Introduction to School Choice and the Podcast's Mission

Drew Perkins introduces the podcast's focus on intellectually rigorous education discourse and welcomes Patrick Graff, senior fellow at the American Federation for Children, to discuss school choice and competition versus spending.

2:00
3 min

Patrick Graff's Background and the Notre Dame Teacher Training Program

Graff shares his journey from teaching third grade in a Catholic school to earning a PhD in sociology, highlighting his experience with the University of Notre Dame’s alternative teacher certification program, which recruits high-caliber graduates and provides strong peer support.

5:00
5 min

The Florida School Choice Experiment: Key Findings

The competition effect was 11 times more cost-effective than simply increasing school spending.

Highlight
10:00
5 min

Mechanisms Behind the Competition Effect

The competition effect isn't some crazy unheard of effect... it's a modest but meaningful gain over 15 years.

Highlight
15:00
5 min

Critique of School Spending and ESSER Funding

You would have to spend an additional 450 to 650 billion dollars to get back to 2019 learning levels using only school spending.

Highlight
High-Impact Quotes
You would have to spend an additional 450 to 650 billion dollars to get back to 2019 learning levels using only school spending.
Patrick Graff37:37
Viral: 90.0
This new federal tax credit allows you to by-step in a way... the decisions aren't being made by politically constrained state legislators.
Patrick Graff28:00
Viral: 88.0
The competition effect was 11 times more cost-effective than simply increasing school spending.
Patrick Graff11:00
Viral: 85.0
Speakers

Host

Drew Perkins

Guest

Patrick Graff
Topics Discussed
school choice competition95%school spending effectiveness90%accountability in education85%rural education and community impact80%charitable giving in education78%federal education policy75%educational equity70%teacher preparation and quality65%
People & Brands

Patrick Graff

person

15xPositive

American Federation for Children

organization

12xPositive

Drew Perkins

person

10xPositive

Florida Tax Credit Scholarship Program

other

10xPositive

Catholic schools

organization

9xPositive

David Figlio

person

8xPositive

University of Notre Dame

organization

7xPositive

Education Freedom Tax Credit

other

6xPositive

Kentucky

place

6xNeutral

ESSER funding

other

5xNeutral

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