War, Terrible and Awful | Interview: Mick Ryan

In this in-depth interview, Jonah Goldberg speaks with retired Australian Major General Mick Ryan, a seasoned military strategist and author of 'The War for Ukraine: Strategy and Adaptation Under Fire.' The conversation covers the ongoing war in Ukraine, the recent Iran-Israel conflict, and broader strategic implications for U.S. foreign policy and global security. Ryan critiques the Trump administration’s approach to both conflicts, arguing that while the Iran war was framed as a 'special military operation' to avoid congressional oversight, it lacked a coherent strategy and failed to produce a decisive outcome. He emphasizes that Russia’s war in Ukraine is a war of attrition, sustained by its vast population and authoritarian resilience, despite staggering casualties. Ryan highlights Ukraine’s remarkable adaptation, particularly in drone warfare and the controversial 'ePoints' gamification system that incentivizes killing Russian soldiers. He warns against overgeneralizing lessons from Ukraine to other theaters, stressing that context—terrain, politics, and enemy capabilities—determines military effectiveness. Ryan also discusses the need for Western democracies to relearn national defense, with Eastern Europe showing greater urgency, while Western Europe remains slow to act. He underscores the importance of maintaining the U.S. military’s moral core and professional ethos amid political turbulence, even as rhetoric around lethality and domestic military use raises concerns. Finally, he calls for urgent investment in munitions stockpiles, defense industry capacity, and faster innovation to counter emerging threats from China and Russia. Key takeaways include: 1) Ukraine’s success hinges on sustained, early, and large-scale Western support—delays have cost critical momentum; 2) The 'ePoints' system, while ethically fraught, reflects Ukraine’s existential desperation and is a powerful psychological tool; 3) Russia’s war is not about tactical brilliance but about grinding down Ukraine through attrition and psychological warfare; 4) The U.S. military’s strength lies in its moral purpose and professional ethos, which must be protected from politicization; 5) Europe must move beyond complacency and invest in expeditionary capabilities and national defense; 6) China’s Taiwan strategy is opportunistic and will likely exploit U.S. domestic distractions; 7) The future of warfare is not about replacing tanks or aircraft, but integrating them with uncrewed systems in context-specific ways; 8) The U.S. must rebuild its defense industrial base and accelerate innovation to maintain strategic advantage.