Gettin’ Wonky on the Unitary Executive | Interview: Charlie Cooke

In this episode of The Remnant, Jonah Goldberg engages in a wide-ranging conversation with Charlie Cooke, senior editor at National Review and host of the Charles Cook podcast. The discussion begins with a lighthearted exchange about Florida politics, particularly Ron DeSantis’s handling of the pandemic and his controversial push to eliminate vaccine mandates—arguments that Cooke critiques as a category error, distinguishing between the novel context of the COVID-19 pandemic and established vaccines like those for polio. The conversation then pivots to a deep dive into the unitary executive theory, with Cooke defending the constitutional principle that the president must have full control over the executive branch, while Goldberg expresses growing discomfort with its implications, especially regarding independent agencies like the Federal Reserve. They debate the originalist basis of the theory, the practical necessity of independent institutions, and the dangers of both over-centralization and institutional overreach. The dialogue expands into broader ideological territory, with Cooke critiquing the rise of illiberalism on the right—particularly post-liberal integralism and nationalist movements—arguing that they pose a greater threat to American conservatism than left-wing policies. Goldberg counters that while he agrees with many of Cooke’s critiques, he remains more alarmed by the prospect of a Jacobin-style Democratic Party gaining unchecked power, especially through court packing. The episode concludes with a reflection on intellectual integrity, the dangers of ideological conformity, and the importance of maintaining principled discourse even when disagreeing with allies. The tone is candid, self-aware, and deeply committed to the idea that truth and consistency matter more than tribal loyalty.