#2399 - Daryl Davis & Jeff Schoep

In this powerful three-part episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan hosts Daryl Davis, a Black musician and activist who has spent decades engaging with members of the KKK and neo-Nazi groups, helping over 200 individuals leave hate organizations through empathy and dialogue. Davis recounts how his journey began after a Klansman, moved by his kindness, quit the Klan and handed him his outfit. His mission was never conversion, but connection—answering the question, 'How can you hate me if you don’t even know me?' The conversation then turns to Jeff Schoep, former national leader of the National Socialist Movement, who shares his 27-year journey from white supremacist leader to anti-hate advocate. Schoep reveals he was indoctrinated through family history and a fascination with Nazi lore, joining at 18 after finding a book on the movement. His pivotal meeting with Davis at a hot dog stand in Alabama in 2016 marked the beginning of his de-radicalization. Both men emphasize that hate is learned, not innate, and can be unlearned through human connection, curiosity, and exposure to better ideas. They explore how extremist groups exploit fear of demographic change, echo chambers, and tribalism to recruit, particularly targeting military and law enforcement personnel. Schoep’s personal transformation—culminating in his 2019 exit from the NSM and his current work with the Simon Wiesenthal Center—demonstrates the power of forgiveness, especially when he was welcomed by the Jewish community he once despised. The episode concludes with a call to action: everyone, regardless of their role—front line, back line, or online—can contribute to dismantling hate by promoting pro-human values, offering purpose to those leaving extremism, and focusing on what we are for, not just what we oppose.