309. How to Build Trust with Today’s Youth, with Josh Packard, author of Faithful futures
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In this episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, host Marcus Watson interviews Josh Packard, author of 'Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations,' about transforming youth ministry for Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Packard challenges the assumption that young people have 'left' the church, arguing instead that their parents' generation left, leaving today's youth without a church to return to. He emphasizes that faith is now experienced as a dynamic conversation rather than a static identity, and that trust has shifted from institutions to personal relationships. Central to his approach is 'sacred listening theory,' a three-part framework combining theological posture (Imago Dei), communication alignment, and sociological pattern recognition to build authentic, scalable relationships. Packard stresses the need for humility, curiosity, and systemic tools to overcome the loneliness epidemic among youth, advocating for ministries that meet young people where they are—emotionally, developmentally, and spiritually—rather than imposing outdated models. The conversation underscores the importance of scaling relational ministry through intentional, data-informed practices that honor the complexity of modern youth experiences. Key takeaways include: 1) Gen Z and Gen Alpha aren’t disengaged—they’re unfamiliar with church culture and need foundational relational entry points; 2) Sacred listening isn’t just a skill but a theological practice rooted in seeing every young person as made in God’s image; 3) Effective ministry must shift from 'scaling up' to 'scaling out' by connecting youth with trusted adults across the congregation; 4) Loneliness is a crisis among youth, and traditional gatherings can feel intimidating—ministry must create safe, incremental pathways to community; 5) Leaders must cultivate curiosity over judgment to foster genuine connection. The episode concludes with a call to action: reorient church practices around listening, humility, and relational presence rather than programmatic performance.
Gen Z and Gen Alpha haven't left the church—they never really had one to return to.
Faith is now experienced as a conversation, not a static identity.
Sacred listening theory combines Imago Dei, communication alignment, and pattern recognition to scale relational ministry.
Loneliness is the defining crisis for today’s youth—ministry must create safe, incremental pathways to connection.
Leaders must lead with curiosity, not judgment, to foster authentic relationships.
The Myth of the Disengaged Youth
“You know who left the church? Their parents left the church, the millennials and the Gen Xers. And so the Gen Z and Gen Alpha generations, they don't really have a church to come back to.”
Faith as Conversation, Not Identity
“The hallmark of youth is change. But it's like we set all of that aside when it comes to their faith lives and we try to pretend like if we can just get them to occupy this category of faithfulness, then they'll never move off of it.”
The Sacred Listening Theory Framework
“When you sit and listen to somebody, you're not building trust so that later you can help shape their faith. That is kind of happening. You are building trust, but you are also doing something deeply formative for their faith in that moment.”
Scaling Relational Ministry
“You cannot do relational ministry with 300 people by having 300 cups of coffee every week. But we do think that if you have the right tools, then and you know which three people need your attention this week, then you can do it across that many people.”
Loneliness, Humility, and the Future of Ministry
Packard addresses the epidemic of loneliness among youth, citing research showing teenagers are the loneliest generation. He calls for a radical shift in ministry models—from inviting youth to events to systematically building relationships. The episode concludes with a call to lead with humility, curiosity, and a willingness to learn from young people.
“Success in ministry is no longer about converting the bad into the good, but about guiding everyone through whatever challenges they may face while affirming their worth at every potential turn.”
“When you sit and listen to somebody, you're not building trust so that later you can help shape their faith. That is kind of happening. You are building trust, but you are also doing something deeply formative for their faith in that moment.”
“The teenagers, on the other hand, were the loneliest of all the groups and their objective scores were higher than we had ever measured.”
Host
Guest
josh packard
person
faithful futures
book
gen z
other
future of faith
organization
marcus watson
person
gen alpha
other
mount soledad presbyterian church
organization
cigna
organization
ucla
organization
ted lasso
media
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