Mariana Mazzucato Thinks We Need More Moonshots

In this episode of Odd Lots, hosts Jill Weisenthal and Tracy Allaway welcome Professor Mariana Mazzucato to discuss the urgent need for governments to embrace bold, mission-oriented innovation—what she calls 'moonshots'—to tackle society's most pressing challenges. Drawing from her work on the entrepreneurial state and public sector capabilities, Mazzucato argues that governments must move beyond reactive, cost-benefit-driven policymaking and instead lead with purpose, coordinating across ministries and sectors to solve complex problems like climate change, healthcare, and food security. She critiques the overreliance on consultants, which she sees as a symptom of weakened state capacity and a culture of risk aversion, and advocates for reinvesting in public sector expertise and dynamic capabilities. The conversation turns to AI, where Mazzucato warns that without strong public governance and ethical foresight, private tech giants will capture the benefits of publicly funded research while externalizing risks. She emphasizes that AI should be a tool for public missions, not an end in itself, and calls for regulatory frameworks like algorithmic disclosures to ensure accountability and equity. The episode concludes with examples of successful mission-oriented governance in Brazil, Sweden, Germany, and the UK’s GDS, illustrating how public institutions can drive transformation when they are empowered, adaptable, and mission-focused. Key takeaways include: 1) Governments should define bold missions (e.g., healthy school lunches, fossil-free welfare states) rather than focusing on sectors or technologies; 2) Public sector capabilities—especially dynamic capabilities like adaptability and inter-ministerial coordination—must be rebuilt, not outsourced; 3) Consultants should not replace internal expertise; when used, contracts must embed learning and accountability; 4) AI must be governed through public missions and ethical pre-distribution, not left to private profit maximization; 5) Success requires cultural change: governments must embrace failure as part of innovation and value public service as a source of value creation, not just redistribution. Mazzucato’s vision is one of empowered, mission-driven states that co-create with society and the private sector to build a more inclusive, sustainable future.