Lisa Siraganian, "The Problem of Personhood: Giving Rights to Trees, Corporations, and Robots" (Verso, 2026)
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In this episode of New Books in Law, host Tim Wynum McCarthy interviews Lisa Siraganian, author of 'The Problem of Personhood: Giving Rights to Trees, Corporations, and Robots' (Verso, 2026). Siraganian, a literary scholar and professor at Johns Hopkins University, traces the historical evolution of legal personhood from its roots in corporate law to its contemporary expansion into non-human entities like fetuses, animals, rivers, and AI. She argues that the current trend of granting personhood to non-humans—while often well-intentioned—relies on a hollowed-out, corporate-style model that strips personhood of its social, moral, and collective dimensions. This results in a depoliticized legal framework that fails to protect the very entities it claims to defend, while simultaneously undermining human dignity and collective responsibility. The episode explores how this model reduces complex beings to isolated, morally significant individuals—like a fetus with unique DNA or a tree as a solitary entity—while erasing their embeddedness in relationships, ecosystems, and social contexts. Siraganian warns that this trend distracts from more effective political and structural solutions, such as labor organizing and rights-based movements, and calls for a reimagining of personhood centered on obligation, solidarity, and publicness rather than legal fiction. Key takeaways include: (1) Expansive legal personhood, modeled on corporate personhood, empties the concept of personhood of its moral and social substance; (2) The focus on individuality and moral significance over duties and relationships reduces entities to property-like forms; (3) Rhetorical strategies—like the erasure of the placenta or the ventriloquizing of nature—serve to obscure the interconnectedness of life; (4) AI personhood debates are shaped by science fiction tropes and utopian fantasies that mask real-world exploitation in AI development; and (5) Sustainable protection of nature, animals, and human rights requires political action, not legal fictions. The overall tone is critically thoughtful and urgent, with a strong emphasis on historical context and ethical responsibility.
Expansive legal personhood relies on a hollowed-out corporate model that strips personhood of social, moral, and collective dimensions.
Granting personhood to non-humans often reduces them to isolated, morally significant individuals, erasing their relational and ecological embeddedness.
Rhetorical and representational strategies (e.g., erasing the placenta) are used to dehumanize birthing persons and elevate fetal personhood.
AI personhood debates are driven by misleading metaphors (e.g., 'hallucination') that personify non-agential systems.
Legal personhood is a depoliticizing tool that distracts from structural solutions like labor organizing and rights-based movements.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Audience Survey & Podcast Promotion
The episode opens with a brief promotion for the New Books Network's 2026 audience survey, encouraging listeners to participate for a chance to win a $100 gift card to bookshop.org. The segment also promotes the podcast 'Disorder' featuring an Epstein survivor's story.
Introduction to the Book and Author
Host Tim Wynum McCarthy introduces Lisa Siraganian, the J.R. Herbert Boone Chair in Humanities at Johns Hopkins University, and her new book on the expansion of legal personhood. He highlights her academic background in literary studies and law, and her previous works on corporate personhood.
The Core Argument: Hollowing Out Personhood
“Expanding personhood requires or kind of comes along with an impoverished notion of what it means to be a person or empties the person of its substance.”
Historical Roots of Corporate Personhood
The discussion traces the origins of corporate personhood back to the 16th century, with early examples involving churches and universities. The key development came with industrial capitalism and the need for limited liability, which allowed corporations to act as legal entities separate from their shareholders.
Fetal Personhood and the Erosion of the Birthing Person
“Once you've lost a lot of the other aspects of what it means to be a person, then the physical property aspect is going to be... constituted by our obligations.”
“To hallucinate, you have to imagine that you can see without hallucinating, right? It's a basic personification.”
“The only one where you can sort of make an argument for it, I guess, is fetal personhood. Exactly. Yeah. But it might not be the argument that, yeah, we want.”
“If we are actually, if we want, you know, a better country. And if we want our higher education, well, we have to fight for it and we have to organize to fight for it.”
Host
Guest
Lisa Siraganian
person
Tim Wynum McCarthy
person
New Books Network
organization
Johns Hopkins University
organization
Christopher Stone
person
Citizens United
other
American Association of University Professors
organization
The Lorax
book
Dr. Seuss
person
Verso
other
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