Chasing Aliens, with Jon Ronson and Daniel Lavelle (Part Two)

The Rise of Psychic Spies and Black Ops

Lavelle introduces the bizarre history of U.S. military psychic espionage programs, including remote viewing at Fort Meade and Project Jedi at Fort Bragg, where soldiers were trained in 'levels' of psychic ability—from observation to invisibility. Despite the lack of real funding and scientific basis, these programs persisted for decades, driving participants to madness.

The Goat Lab and the Limits of Belief

Lavelle recounts the infamous 'Goat Lab' at Fort Bragg, where soldiers attempted to stop goats’ hearts with their minds. Though one goat reportedly died, the incident was likely due to pre-existing injuries. The story illustrates how belief in the paranormal can spiral into self-deception and psychological harm.

The Psychology of Belief and the Sceptic's Paradox

Lavelle explores why so many people in the military believe in UFOs, arguing it’s not because they’re crazy—but because they’re human. He challenges the idea that sceptics are superior, pointing out that many are entrenched in their own cult-like movements and have ties to elite networks like the Epstein files.

The Physics of Interstellar Travel and the Possibility of Wormholes

Lavelle discusses the astronomical challenges of interstellar travel—Proxima Centauri B is four light years away, and even the fastest spacecraft would take 100,000 years. He explains wormholes as theoretical shortcuts in spacetime, but notes they collapse under matter and require dark energy to stay open—something we can’t yet harness.

The Government’s Use of UFO Myths as Distraction

Lavelle reveals how the U.S. government used UFO narratives to cover up secret projects, like spy plane development. Richard Doughty, an intelligence officer, deliberately fed false UFO evidence to believers to keep them distracted and off the trail of real operations.