HN823: Defining A Modern Network Service
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In this episode of Heavy Networking, host Ethan Banks sits down with Mark Prosser, founder of Tornog, a Toronto-based network operators group, to explore the evolving definition of a 'network service' in the modern era. The conversation centers on how the complexity of today’s networks—driven by overlays, cloud integration, automation, and outsourced infrastructure—has made traditional service provisioning inadequate. Prosser argues that a true network service must be defined not just by technical configuration, but by end-to-end validation, business outcomes, and cross-organizational collaboration. He emphasizes that services are no longer just about connectivity, but about the full lifecycle of delivery, including ongoing testing, observability, and human coordination across silos. The discussion highlights the shift from 'boiling the ocean' (viewing the entire network as one entity) to thinking in terms of systems and services, with a focus on documentation, testing frameworks like NUTS and PyATS, and the role of AI in bridging knowledge gaps. The episode concludes with a call to action: organizations must start small, build iterative validation, and foster collaboration to deliver resilient, measurable services in an increasingly complex world.
A modern network service must be defined by end-to-end validation and business outcomes, not just technical configuration.
Testing should be continuous and iterative, not just a one-time check after provisioning.
Organizational silos between network, security, and application teams hinder service delivery—collaboration is essential.
Tools like NUTS, PyATS, and Thousand Eyes help validate services across complex, multi-layered infrastructures.
AI can help bridge knowledge gaps and automate documentation, reducing the burden on human engineers.
…and 2 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Sponsor & Welcome: Network-as-a-Service with Meter
Ethan Banks opens the episode with a sponsor segment for Meter, a network-as-a-service provider offering integrated wired, wireless, and cellular solutions. He introduces the show’s format and location—Nanog 96 in San Francisco—and welcomes listeners to the podcast.
Introducing Mark Prosser & Tornog: A Canadian NOG Movement
“We're not the only NOG in Canada. There's also Montreal NOG. Well, well done. Good for you. I'm glad you got a bunch of people in Toronto that are interested in that and then a bunch of people to draw from.”
The Evolution of Network Services: From VLANs to End-to-End Systems
“A real service is end-to-end. It's many layers of abstraction. But cars have a lot of congestion. Is the service really servicing the applications or the business outcomes?”
Siloed Teams & the Challenge of Systems Thinking
“The 1984 or 1986 book, The Goal also talks about this. And the Phoenix Project is basically a modern version of that, right? So this is the million dollar question...”
Testing, Validation & the Myth of 'Done'
“You don't know what tests you need until your service, until you passed all your tests but the service still isn't working and then you go back and get a test.”
“If you think it's elephant flows, get out of the room. I need something with a different thought pattern.”
“A real service is end-to-end. It's many layers of abstraction. But cars have a lot of congestion. Is the service really servicing the applications or the business outcomes?”
“Start small: focus on 20% of the system that delivers 80% of the value, then scale iteratively.”
Host
Guest
Mark Prosser
person
Ethan Banks
person
Tornog
organization
Meter
organization
Nanog 96
other
Packet Pushers
media
NUTS
product
PyATS
product
SD-WAN
other
Thousand Eyes
product
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