Hard Fun is More Fun
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In this episode of the Happy Families podcast, Dr. Justin Coulson and Kylie Coulson explore a new Harvard University study on children's motivation and play, focusing on the difference between 'hard fun'—challenging, self-directed play—and 'easy fun,' which is driven by external rewards. The research, led by developmental psychologist Alison Gopnik and published in Developmental Psychology, reveals that children aged 5 to 10 naturally gravitate toward more challenging setups when playing for fun, but simplify the game when playing to win. This shift occurs because the presence of rewards shifts focus from intrinsic enjoyment and growth to the mere acquisition of the prize. The hosts emphasize that removing competition and external incentives allows children to embrace risk, creativity, and personal challenge—key drivers of true engagement and joy. They draw on personal anecdotes and the influential book *Punished by Rewards* by Alfie Kohn to illustrate how rewards undermine long-term motivation, encourage minimal effort, and discourage effortful tasks. The episode concludes with a powerful message: fostering 'hard fun'—autonomous, challenge-based play—leads to deeper satisfaction, resilience, and sustained effort in both children and adults.
Children naturally seek challenge when playing for fun, but simplify tasks when competing for rewards.
Removing external rewards increases intrinsic motivation and encourages risk-taking and creativity.
Challenge should be meaningful and achievable—not too easy or too hard—to maintain engagement.
The goal of play should be the experience itself, not the outcome or prize.
Rewards shift focus from doing well to getting the reward, often leading to minimal effort and disengagement after the prize is obtained.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Introducing the Study: Hard Fun vs. Easy Fun
“When you remove competition, when you take away prizes, goodies and the chance of getting something, kids' intrinsic orientation toward growth means that as a general rule, they will pursue more challenge.”
The Experiment: Playing to Win vs. Playing for Fun
The hosts break down the Harvard study where children aged 5–10 played a game involving knocking down blocks with beanbags or batons. They were given two conditions: playing to win (for stickers) or playing for fun (with no rules). Results showed kids made the game easier when competing but embraced greater challenge when playing for fun.
The Power of Intrinsic Motivation and Challenge
“The more you remove rewards and say, let's just do this because it's fun, the more they seek the challenge.”
The Cost of Rewards: Lessons from Alfie Kohn and Real-Life Experience
“If it was somehow possible to obtain [the reward] without finishing the assignment, we would abandon the task in a minute.”
“If it was somehow possible to obtain it without finishing the assignment, we would abandon the task in a minute.”
“The objective is not really to succeed at the task at all in the sense of doing it well. It is to succeed at obtaining the reward.”
“The more you put rewards in front of people, the less likely it is that people will challenge themselves.”
Hosts
Justin Coulson
person
Kylie Coulson
person
Happy Families podcast
media
Harvard University
organization
Punished by Rewards
book
Alison Gopnik
person
Alfie Kohn
person
Developmental Psychology
other
Bridge Media
organization
Hammonds
person
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