How to win — or lose — Decoder
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In this mailbag episode of Decoder, host Nilay Patel and senior producer Nick Statt dive into listener feedback on two of the show's most talked-about interviews: the contentious conversation with Superhuman CEO Shashir Mahotra over Grammarly's AI likeness controversy, and the evasive interview with Puck CEO Sarah Personette. Patel reflects on the intense reactions, defending the show's mission to confront tech leaders with hard questions, arguing that discomfort is necessary for accountability in an industry racing ahead without ethical or legal clarity. He emphasizes that the show's value lies in its external perspective—unfiltered by corporate PR—providing real accountability that internal media cannot. The discussion evolves into a broader reflection on the role of journalism in the AI era, where consumer AI products fail to deliver on promises, yet enterprise AI shows real product-market fit. Patel stresses that the absence of a beloved, compelling consumer AI product undermines the industry's narrative, and he remains committed to asking tough questions about power, ownership, and responsibility. The episode closes with insights into the upcoming book 'How to Get What You Want,' a practical guide for young professionals navigating a volatile job market shaped by AI, and a look at future guests including Sam Altman, Dario Amadeo, and AI-driven business leaders.
Hard-hitting journalism on tech CEOs is essential to hold power accountable, even when it causes discomfort.
The lack of a compelling, widely loved consumer AI product reveals a gap between hype and reality.
Enterprise AI has real product-market fit, but consumer AI is failing to deliver on promises, leading to public distrust.
The Verge's editorial independence—no brand deals, no pre-interview edits—makes it a rare space for authentic accountability.
The upcoming book 'How to Get What You Want' will serve as a practical guide for young professionals navigating AI-driven job markets.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
The Superhuman Interview and the Power of Accountability
“If we don't ask these questions, if we don't ask them sort of relentlessly, then we will never make the people building the products actually think about what the answer should be.”
The Puck Interview and the Crisis of Evasiveness
“I thought Sarah blew it. I thought that was one of the worst performances on the show we've ever had.”
The AI Coverage Dilemma: Hype vs. Reality
“There is not a product that regular people are using every day that they feel like love for that overcomes this.”
The Future of Decoder: From Podcast to Practical Guide
Patel reveals the upcoming book 'How to Get What You Want,' a practical manual for young professionals navigating a chaotic, AI-driven job market. Drawing from years of interviews, the book aims to distill common patterns in company structure and decision-making, offering readers a 'cheat code' for professional agency in uncertain times.
Moonshot Guests and the Art of the Uncontrollable Interview
Patel shares his dream guest list, including Sam Altman, Dario Amadeo, and Palantir’s Alex Karp, while reflecting on the challenge of securing high-profile CEOs. He emphasizes that the show’s appeal lies in its unpredictability—guests can't control the questions, and the real value is in the vulnerability and honesty that emerges when they’re forced to think on their feet.
“If we don't ask these questions, if we don't ask them sort of relentlessly, then we will never make the people building the products actually think about what the answer should be.”
“We're not going to do brand deals and integrated sponsorships and all the stuff that compromises that core promise that we make as journalists.”
“The thing that I'm looking at a lot is where is the product, the AI product that people love that actually changes their minds?”
Hosts
Nilay Patel
person
The Verge
organization
Nick Statt
person
Shashir Mahotra
person
Superhuman
organization
Grammarly
organization
Sarah Personette
person
Puck
organization
Odoo
organization
Sam Altman
person
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The AI industry's existential race for profits
Decoder with Nilay Patel • 38m • 4/9/2026
Can Puck’s CEO reinvent the news business for the influencer age?
Decoder with Nilay Patel • 1h 14m • 4/13/2026
Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman's "unconstrained" relationship with the truth
Decoder with Nilay Patel • 1h 2m • 4/16/2026
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