מנחות קא 5786
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This episode of Daf Yomi: The 35 Minute Daf explores a complex Talmudic discussion in Menachot 13a, focusing on the laws of redemption (pidyon) for sacrificial offerings that have sanctity (kedusha) but are not yet fully consecrated. The central debate revolves around whether items like meal offerings (mincha), drink offerings (nesachim), and other sacred materials—once sanctified but not yet placed in the klishar (vessel)—can be redeemed even if they are tahor (pure), not tamei (impure). Shmuel argues that they can be redeemed even without impurity, but the Gemara challenges this by citing a b’risa (baraita) that states anything fit for the altar cannot be redeemed, regardless of purity. The discussion unfolds through multiple opinions: Rav Oshia holds that such items cannot be redeemed because they are fit for the altar, while others, like Rav Khanna, allow redemption only if the item is tamei. The episode delves into the reasoning behind these views, emphasizing the sanctity of sacrificial materials and the fear of scarcity. A key point is the concept of 'shas kashar'—a time when an item could have been eaten or redeemed—determining whether it is considered food and thus subject to certain laws like tumat ochlin (impurity from food). The episode concludes with a nuanced analysis of the mincha offering that was sanctified while still attached to the ground, raising questions about whether it ever had a 'shas kashar' and thus whether it could be redeemed or is permanently disqualified.
Items with kedusha d'mei (sanctity of the offering) can be redeemed even if tahor, according to Shmuel, but this is contested by other opinions.
The key criterion for redemption is whether the item ever had a 'shas kashar'—a time when it could have been eaten or redeemed.
Items sanctified while still attached to the ground may never have had a 'shas kashar' and thus cannot be redeemed, even if tahor.
The Gemara distinguishes between items that are fit for the altar (not redeemable) and those that are not, even if they are sacred.
The concept of 'standing to be redeemed' (like the parah adumah) can create a legal status of redemption even without actual action.
Shmuel's Controversial View on Redemption of Pure Offerings
“Shmuel said, even if the Mincha and the Nasachim, before they were put in a Klisharus, you just, you put them aside for the Beis Hamikdash, but you didn't yet put them in a Klisharus so there's no Klisha's Aguf there, you could still be potent, said Shmuel.”
The Baraita Against Redemption: Fit for the Altar, Not Redeemable
The Gemara presents a baraita stating that anything fit for the altar cannot be redeemed, even if it is tahor. This directly contradicts Shmuel’s view and forms the basis for the debate. The discussion explores why such items are considered irrevocably dedicated and the theological and practical reasons behind this rule.
Rav Oshia and the 'Shas Kashar' Principle
“If it was never fit to be eaten, and it was never fit to be eaten, then it didn't have a shasa kosher. What's an example of a never-da-shasa kosher? When you have the flour, isn't it always time it could have been eaten before you sanctified it?”
The Parah Adumah Analogy: Standing to Be Redeemed
The Gemara draws a parallel with the red heifer (parah adumah), which can be redeemed even after shechita because it is 'standing to be redeemed.' This supports the idea that potential redemption can create legal status, even without actual action, but this principle does not apply to mincha offerings due to lack of a mitzvah to redeem.
Resolving the Dispute: When Is a Sacrifice Considered Food?
The episode concludes by analyzing whether a sanctified mincha is considered 'food' based on whether it ever had a 'shas kashar.' The discussion emphasizes that if an item was never fit to be eaten—due to immediate sanctification—it cannot be redeemed and is not subject to laws like tumat ochlin.
“Shmuel said, even if the Mincha and the Nasachim, before they were put in a Klisharus, you just, you put them aside for the Beis Hamikdash, but you didn't yet put them in a Klisharus so there's no Klisha's Aguf there, you could still be potent, said Shmuel.”
“If it was never fit to be eaten, and it was never fit to be eaten, then it didn't have a shasa kosher. What's an example of a never-da-shasa kosher? When you have the flour, isn't it always time it could have been eaten before you sanctified it?”
“The reason it should be he's moda is because it's Mutzur Ba'ano. He says, Chada B'od, he gave two reasons. Chada D'och Hoshati, Echol Echeim.”
Host
Mincha
other
Shmuel
person
Beis Hamikdash
place
Tumah
other
Rabbi Shimon
person
Zerika
other
Taharah
other
Klishar
other
Rav Oshia
person
Parah Adumah
other
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