Episode 163: Concrete Botany: Reconnecting with the Living World in the Age of Disturbance with Joey Santore
Get the full intelligence
Search transcripts, export clips, track mentions, and explore all topics from “Episode 163: Concrete Botany: Reconnecting with the Living World in the Age of Disturbance with Joey Santore” inside PodZeus.
In this episode of the Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast, host Tad Hussey interviews Joey Santor, a former railroad engineer turned leading naturalist and author of the newly released book *Concrete Botany: The Ecology of Plants in the Age of Human Disturbance*. Santor, known for his YouTube channel Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't, shares his journey from a life in industrial labor to becoming a passionate advocate for reconnecting people with the living world through science, humor, and raw honesty. He critiques modern horticulture and lawn culture as ecological atrocities, arguing that native plants are essential infrastructure for climate resilience, biodiversity, and mental well-being. Santor emphasizes that human control of land should be guided by ecological understanding—not outdated aesthetics—highlighting the importance of native species, soil health, and disturbance ecology. He challenges the notion that 'natural' means inherently good, stressing the need for critical thinking over romanticized nature myths. The conversation also explores the role of human selection versus natural selection, the dangers of invasive species, and the profound psychological and physiological benefits of engaging with real ecosystems. Santor’s message is clear: rewilding our minds and landscapes is not just ecological necessity—it’s a path to human fulfillment.
Native plants are not just ornamental—they are ecological infrastructure that mitigate heat, prevent flooding, and support biodiversity.
Modern horticulture often prioritizes uniformity and aesthetics over ecological function, resulting in 'horticultural atrocities' that harm local ecosystems.
Disturbance is natural and necessary for ecological diversity; however, human disturbance should be intentional and informed, not destructive.
Humans are deeply disconnected from the living world, which contributes to mental health crises and societal dysfunction.
Understanding evolution and ecology helps cultivators avoid invasive species, manage pests naturally, and design resilient systems.
…and 2 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Introducing Joey Santor and His Mission
“I'm just some schmuck, man. You know, I worked for The Railroad for 15 years.”
Why Botany Fails to Connect with the Public
Santor explains why traditional botany is often perceived as boring and inaccessible, especially to working-class audiences. He argues that the field has been dominated by elitist, monotone academics who fail to inspire curiosity.
The Myth of the 'Useful' Plant
“Is it edible? Is that? Fuck, I don't know. Go put it in your ass mouth to try to figure, see if it would see what happens.”
Horticulture as Ecological Violence
“I'd rather someone have turf grass than a line of planted cultivars of crape myrtles and boxwoods. I really would.”
Plants as Infrastructure and Ecosystem Engineers
Santor explains how native plants function as living infrastructure—cooling urban heat islands, preventing erosion, and supporting entire food webs. He shares personal examples from his desert home in Texas.
“I'm not hopeful about that. I got plenty of hope. It's just not for whatever we're fucking doing here.”
“If you don't think the mental health crisis we're in as a country has any connection to the fact that we've made Newport, Connecticut look the same as a suburb in Los Angeles County... I don't know what to tell you.”
“Is it edible? Is that? Fuck, I don't know. Go put it in your ass mouth to try to figure, see if it would see what happens.”
Host
Guest
Joey Santor
person
Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't
other
Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast
media
Tad Hussey
person
iNaturalist
other
Black Soldier Fly Larvae
other
Serpentine Soils
other
Kiss Organics
organization
Actinobacteria
other
Gypsum Soils
other
Get the full intelligence
Search transcripts, export clips, track mentions, and explore all topics from “Episode 163: Concrete Botany: Reconnecting with the Living World in the Age of Disturbance with Joey Santore” inside PodZeus.
Start discovering podcast insights today
Start with a 7-day trial and explore a growing catalog of popular podcasts. No credit card required.
No credit card required • 7-day trial • Cancel anytime